Wednesday, March 09, 2005

Now we're on a roll....
Bill Gothard, founder and president of IBLP, recently shared a thrilling new insight with excited parents of the ATI program.

"As I was meditating in the night," he said, "the Lord shared this insight with me: if college can be accelerated, why not courtship? After all, how long do you think Adam and Eve's courtship lasted?"

Parents enthusiastically embraced this new truth in eager anticipation of the mighty works their sons and daughters could accomplish by avoiding protracted, unfruitful courtship relationships.

The Institute plans to provide Speed Courting rooms for prospective couples at all events and conferences. Young men will be given the opportunity to mingle with the parents of young ladies with the goal of discovering their partner while attending a Seminar. Parents will be equipped with a powerful seven-point questionnaire. This valuable tool will assist them in asking potential suitors precise questions about their commitments and standards.

ATI daughters expressed gratitude to their parents for providing protection through Speed Courtship. "I used to give my heart away to every young man who asked my father to court me," said one young lady. "Now our union will be arranged before I get caught up in unhealthy soul ties!"


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding dating....
anyone else have the discussion with your parents over honor vs. obedience? I ran into this one at age 21 when I was dating my (now) husband. (of course they were opposed to us dating...but that's another story) They told me that honor in the biblical sense of course (!) meant unquestioned obedience even for an adult child....anyone have thoughts on this?

3:40 PM  
Blogger Seabhag said...

I still run into said comments from my folks sometimes. That said they are still part of IBLP for all the I try to convince them to get out. I would say that the only place that the "biblical" sense of honor is unquestioned obedience is in IBLP. The closest beyond that, that I can think of would be maybe the old Busado code of honor. But that also allowed for ritual suicide if you dishonored your family.


4:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...'re in Springfield MO? that's where my family's from....nice little hotbed of Gothardism/homeschooling/arranged marriages! Also some very nice, normal people:) Go Bears!

9:05 PM  
Blogger Seabhag said...

Yep. Springfield MO.. Actually I attend SMSU or.. MSU as it will be called as of Aug 28. so.. I'll second your statement.. Go Bears!!


3:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I ran into the honor/obedience thing when I was twenty FIVE and they decided to change their minds about me courting my now husband. I actually looked up the words in the concordance to get the meanings of the words. I was pretty much given the same line you honor meant to obey their wishes and follow their lead...

I disagreed and still do disagree. There comes a time in life when God calls you to Himself and calls you to answer for yourself. I believe that parents are to "train up a child in the way he should go" so that "when he is old, he will not depart from it."

I don't have children yet, but I believe it to be my responsibility to train my children early in life, and to equip them with all the tools, tips, and information they need to make wise and God honoring decisions in life.

Courtship, as defined (or not defined, as I would contend) by IBLP seems to lose touch of a few key elements. I always viewed my commitment to courtship as being the time that I set aside my personal desires for the express purpose of giving that time to God. To serve God in various ways and devote my attention to Him. To trust my future and happiness to Him while I focused on Him and His ministries.

Relationships, as a whole, are way way blown out of proportion in IBLP and I believe that it leaves us, it's students, in a place where we are ill equipped to begin, form, or continue good, healthy, and strong relationships with others...especially the opposite sex.

God established marriage as part of his 7 day work of creation. It was in His plan, in His design. It is a perfectly normal, natural thing that God placed inside of us. The attraction to the opposite sex, the desire for a relationship with them, and marriage. I think we forget this too quickly.

I am not one in favor of "dating" per se, but I am also not one in favor of a system of courtship that turns out to be nothing more than glorified dating...where is the difference then?

8:41 AM  
Anonymous Kirstin said...

First anonymous poster - that is exactly what I am going thru right now! Can we talk? My email is on my webpage

5:42 PM  
Blogger Semirrahge said...

Ahh... The old blind obedience issue.

It makes me heartsick to say that I once agreed with this evil concept. That I agreed with it even to the point that I told two very, very dear friends of mine that I thought they were making a mistake getting married without their parents permission.

However, the shame of that is at least partially made up for by the fact that I told them that I'd never bring it up after I told them my opinion, that I wouldn't miss the wedding for anything in the world, and that I would regardless be their friend and support them in whatever their decision was.

It's been over a year now and I see I was so, so, so very wrong as their love and relationship grows stronger every day. I am encouraged by their example and if I am one day married I hope to have one as rich as theirs.

My sister is also meeting with a guy currently, and my parents do NOT subscribe to the concept of courtship or this asinine concept of "parental obedience". They too, went through a period where they thought it was the best, but in the last few years they have come to see that this concept was not supported in the Word of God. The young man is seeing my sister without either of them asking direct permission from my dad or mom.
When I asked my dad if he would have allowed her to go out with him without direct permission if the young man had been someone else, he told me no. But only because he wanted to get a feel for the young man interested in his daughter. He was not interested in building a relationship with the young man. My dad knows the young man well enough to see that he is not merely after my sister's body, and that his personal goals in life are worthy.

I find that approach highly palatible and commendable - and would even if it wasn't my dad and sister involved. :)

11:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey X-er, Didn't want you to miss this.


7:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It looks like it would have been good! But unfortunately, Chuk shut the site down and no one can access the comments. Would have been interesting. I haven't heard of this guy before...

9:00 AM  
Blogger Seabhag said...

To the poster above me.. Don't worry. Semirrahge ( has saved images of the web pages and will be getting them posted to a friend's site where he will make them available to the world. He's gonna be putting up a notice on either his Blogspot or Xanga (under Semirrahge) blogs so keep an eye out for that.

10:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Go here if you want a word copy of two of Chuk's main posts...

6:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I found myself wondering if Chuk P is any older than twelve.
Does anyone know?

3:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you said: "anyone else have the discussion with your parents over honor vs. obedience? I ran into this one at age 21 ....They told me that honor in the biblical sense of course (!) meant unquestioned obedience even for an adult child"

Amazing! That is exactly what my parents said when I wanted to leave home when I was in my _thirties_! This stuff never ceases to amaze me!

2:09 AM  
Blogger Seabhag said...

I belive on his site that ChuckP was listed as being 19 years young. (For the poster wondering how old he was.)


9:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Seriously, sarcasm aside, I would have thought Chuk P to be a tween. Sixteen tops.

6:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, he is...emotionally.

5:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is so sad.

one of my best, dearest friends was disowned by his family when he married the world's sweetest Christian girl. the reason? he met her and decided to court her independently, without asking them to find a wife for him when they determined he was ready.

his lovely folks even told his siblings that as long as this guy continues "sinning," their whole family is at risk for disaster - i.e. one of the parents or other children will surely be killed as part of God's wrath and judgement.

he was 25 when he started seeing his wife, not to mention financially independent.

11:34 AM  

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