A Christmas Greeting
In this time of Christmas celebration, let us put aside our bitter disagreements and heal the hurts that have grown up in the ATI program. I hereby call on all people associated with ATI and IBLP, whether currently or formerly, to reach across the aisle in a spirit of holiday conviviality.
If we could all come together, and say what is truly in our hearts, I imagine our discussion would sound something like this:
It's time for you ex-ATI folks to get over your bitter little hurts. Just forgive ATI, even if they indentured you at an early age, imprisoned you in a Prayer Room and generally treated you like a juvenile delinquent. Put aside your quibbling over the definition of grace and the interpretation of scripture. Who cares about legalism? ATI actually accomplishes much good, such as prompting your parents to conceive you in the first place. Your violent aversion to navy and white is silly. Buy a blue suit (or skirt). Wear it. It looks good, even if Bill says so.
Take your eyes off the man. Because after all, it is possible to see all the good ATI does, as long as you remember that Mr. Gothard is just human. We cannot blame him for the mistakes an entire institution makes.
Stop thinking it is cool to be rebellious. You are silly, petty, and typically knock-off imitations of the truly revolutionary rebels out there. Wearing blue jeans or sneaking contraband into a training center does not make you hip. Even if you've rejected ATI standards, you still define yourself by those standards by always doing the exact opposite.
The sin you harbor in your lives causes you to reject the truths of the Basic Seminar. Purge the dross, and get rid of all idols that cause you to take your eyes off of Christ. Then you can experience freedom.
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It's time for you ex-ATI folks to get over your bitter little hurts. Just forgive ATI, even if they indentured you at an early age, imprisoned you in a Prayer Room and generally treated you like a juvenile delinquent. Put aside your quibbling over the definition of grace and the interpretation of scripture. Who cares about legalism? ATI actually accomplishes much good, such as prompting your parents to conceive you in the first place. Your violent aversion to navy and white is silly. Buy a blue suit (or skirt). Wear it. It looks good, even if Bill says so.
Take your eyes off the man. Because after all, it is possible to see all the good ATI does, as long as you remember that Mr. Gothard is just human. We cannot blame him for the mistakes an entire institution makes.
Stop thinking it is cool to be rebellious. You are silly, petty, and typically knock-off imitations of the truly revolutionary rebels out there. Wearing blue jeans or sneaking contraband into a training center does not make you hip. Even if you've rejected ATI standards, you still define yourself by those standards by always doing the exact opposite.
The sin you harbor in your lives causes you to reject the truths of the Basic Seminar. Purge the dross, and get rid of all idols that cause you to take your eyes off of Christ. Then you can experience freedom.
For you current ATI families, defenders, and Gothardites: get off your spiritual high horse. You have set the bar so high, none of us can possibly reach to your spiritual dedication and conviction. You win, game over. But in the process, many of you forgot the true spirit of Christianity: do not judge, love your neighbor, and other radical commands of Christ.
We're sorry to break this to you, but Mr. Gothard is not a modern-day prophet. He is no more inspired than any other speaker. Perhaps less. We say to you: it is impossible to take one's eyes off Mr. G and realistically view IBLP when his imprint is evident throughout the whole program, both because of his micromanaging and the insidious nature of his philosophy. You can immediately identify a department head or a dedicated family through their spiritual logic and use of Institute-approved buzzwords.
Just because it is the only program you've been affiliated with does not mean it is the best program out there. Eliminate from your vocabulary words such as 'rebel,' 'opportunity,' and 'encourage.' Try new words: 'love,' 'charity,' 'tolerance.' Better yet, 'single malt whiskey' and 'Absolut.'
If people could come together and express these revolutionary thoughts face-to-face, and not just over an online ATI dating service, imagine the power of healing! Our crying out against each other would rise to the heavens and bring down showers of blessing.
Imagine the reforms that would sweep through the Institute as students respectfully share their thoughts and leaders listen to criticism in order to make tangible changes.
Or...maybe I've just had too much eggnog....
22 Comments:
ba humbug
Try new words: 'love,' 'charity,' 'tolerance.' Better yet, 'single malt whiskey' and 'Absolut.'
** The Captain and I agree!**
"Even if you've rejected ATI standards, you still define yourself by those standards by always doing the exact opposite."
True. You aren't free if your every decision is based on What the Institute Would Think, whether you're trying to please them or flout them. A life like that never brings healing and peace. Thank you for articulating it. -- Mairzy
Hey X-er,
I had an idea. Way back in the day when people asked Mr. G a question he couldn't answer he would tell them to design a course on the subject or write a book a book about it. Or, if a person had a problem, and overcame it, he would tell them to design a course for others, so that they too could experience the same freedom.
So here's my idea. You seem to have been really screwed by the program, but you have gotten over it- at least you escaped with a sense of humor. So...
In keeping with Mr. G's suggestion, design your own course! Actually I think you should design your own program. It could be the dark shadow of ATI or perhaps it could be some kind of rejuvenation program for burned out xers.
You could have your own X-ville with apprenticeship tracks like Film Critic track, or Learning How To Swim, 10 Steps To Getting A Tan.
Think about all the possibilities!
You you could even have a percussion choir!
- Yo
i like that last comment, second the motion
Yes please! I need something like that.
hey, peeps? The last thing that the ATI/IBLP world of students need is another course...really...let us not resort to the "familiar" and/or "comfortable" ways...let us break free, be creative, be the individuals God created us to be and instead of creating a course on said issues, let's do something UN-ati. Ok? Thanks. :-)
Nope. It's not the eggnog. And you're on to something, but it bears reiteration.
I'm so glad you made this statement: "The sin you harbor in your lives causes you to reject the truths of the Basic Seminar." Amen! Too many former and current ATI students/employees throw the baby out with the bath water (a saying my parents use, and is a good analogy here). There ARE biblical truths taught at the seminars; interpretation may not be accurate but the principles are immutable because they are Truth.
So many of you guys ("ex-ers" as you have come to call yourselves) are still harboring bitter feelings toward ATIA, IBLP, Gothard and training center directors. I know. I live with one of you. You blame everyone and everything from Bill to the maintenace guys at the TC's to Oak Brook for why you are the way you are. And you use every opportunity to speak ill of the very institution that was created in order to help you become a better person, a better Christian, a better student, a better servant.
EVERY ONE of us has situations and "raw deals" dealt to us in our respective lives; but many of us refuse to become bitter about it. Maybe it's an issue of maturity. Maybe it's previous experiences that cause us to see the wisdom of letting go and forgiving. Maybe it's because our focus is not on ourselves, but on pleasing God and being obedient to His word to forgive.
So why does it seems to be harder for those of you who have been burned to let go, than for those that feel you are being rebellious and heading down the wrong path to admit that they need to stop being judgemental? Me thinks it's pride - on both sides.
Forgiveness needs to be given, whether it is ever asked for or not. If you don't learn to forgive and move on, you will continue to perpetuate this vicious cycle and end up bitter about many other things and people in your lives. In the end, you will be the ones who truly lose out. If you say with your lips that you have forgiven those who have wronged you, but you continue to dwell on it and talk about it, and post satirical rantings, and lay blame at every turn, then you have not truly forgiven them in your heart.
You talk about "judgementalism" and "legalism" as though the "other side" has a market on it. Well, they don't. And you guys need to do the letting go. "To err is human; to forgive divine."
Oh, yes. And in case there are still misunderstandings just remember who the REAL enemy is - and is not. Jesus does.
Signed,
Learning to let go
Rolling eyes @ above post-er.
Rolling eyes @ above post-er.
I'll never forget the time I called the Institute (I attended two seminars in the early 1990s) to talk to someone about my family problems. My mom kicked my dad out and divorced him because she found out he'd been sexually abusing us (and practically everyone else on the block) for twenty years. The guy I talked to said "Well, that's certainly grounds for a long term ***separation***...."
Sheesh!
Comment to the "eye roller": Why would you roll your eyes at what I said? Does it offend you? Or strike a nerve? Just curious at whether or not your reaction is reasonable.
Wondering
>>Comment to the "eye roller": Why would you roll your eyes at what I said? Does it offend you? Or strike a nerve? Just curious at whether or not your reaction is reasonable.
Wondering>>
Sounds like rhetoric to me. All rhetoric.
I roll my eyes because can. I find it to be good excercise from time to time when dealing with certain 'Christian' sects.
Does it offend me? Ah, one of my favorite words-offend. Right up there with rebel and bitter so on and so forth.
Strike a nerve? I think not. I have been rendered emotionless by my time spent in Gothardism. Thus, my nervous system has shut down. No nerves left to strike. (poking self to find out)
As for all whether or not my reaction is reasonable- Who determines what is reasonable? You? Forgive me if I chuckle at that thought.
Chuckling. Annie Nonymous
Obviously, "chuckling", we are going to disagree on many things concerning ATI and IBLP. No problem with that. Everyone's views are different and everyone's experiences are different. I do not judge you nor your experience while in ATI. I do not judge anyone for that matter. All I was merely trying to say is that "x-ers" (like many other people in the world that have been hurt by religion or institutions) need to forgive and move on in regards to the hurts they have encountered. If you don't do this, it will eventually destroy you. I've seen it happen already too many times.
forgiveness is good, no question about that. i can agree with you on that. but all that said and done, still, nonetheless, there are things that need to be said. and this site says them.
--So many of you guys ("ex-ers" as you have come to call yourselves) are still harboring bitter feelings toward ATIA, IBLP, Gothard and training center directors. I know. I live with one of you. You blame everyone and everything from Bill to the maintenace guys at the TC's to Oak Brook for why you are the way you are. And you use every opportunity to speak ill of the very institution that was created in order to help you become a better person, a better Christian, a better student, a better servant.
***Hi Sweetness- Annie again. You say you do not judge us X-ers. The above statement reeks of judgmentalism. Ps. Gothardism isnt geared to help you become a better Christian. Its geared to make you 'look' like a better Christian. Big difference.***
--So why does it seems to be harder for those of you who have been burned to let go, than for those that feel you are being rebellious and heading down the wrong path to admit that they need to stop being judgemental? Me thinks it's pride - on both sides.
***Honey Child, dearest beloved, Annie again. Me thinks you are judging again. You see pride. I see injured souls. Deep wounds that are being forgiven everytime someone chuckles, giggles, snorts with irreverent laughter(help me out here.)Grace says"for there is therefore, now no condemnation....****
---Forgiveness needs to be given, whether it is ever asked for or not. If you don't learn to forgive and move on, you will continue to perpetuate this vicious cycle and end up bitter about many other things and people in your lives. In the end, you will be the ones who truly lose out. If you say with your lips that you have forgiven those who have wronged you, but you continue to dwell on it and talk about it, and post satirical rantings, and lay blame at every turn, then you have not truly forgiven them in your heart.
***My Little Love Radish, yes tis me, your favorite Annie. Vicious cycle? Are you still dwelling in Gothard Land? Please, tell me when a good laugh became a vicious cycle? ***
---You talk about "judgementalism" and "legalism" as though the "other side" has a market on it. Well, they don't. And you guys need to do the letting go. "To err is human; to forgive divine."
***Bless your little socks,Annie in tha house. Those are some big words and lots of "_"'s. Kinda looks like my face during my time in ATI. Try it-its fun! "_"
You guys. You guys. You guys. Reeks of rhetoric and the very thing you accuse the x-ers of.
---Oh, yes. And in case there are still misunderstandings just remember who the REAL enemy is - and is not. Jesus does.
***Sigh. Have you ever considered a career in greeting cards?***
Signed,
Learning to let go
Annie-Ouuuuttttt.....
Response to Annie: (And I sincerely mean this. No malice, no joke.)
Why is it that x-ers can post anything they want to here for a laugh or for healing but someone like me who is not an X-er cannot speak forth my mind? So is this column only for those who believe as you do? Is that fair?
And for the record: I've seen the hurt that has been inflicted upon many young people through the institute. I've seen the hurtful faces and the heartbreaking tears. I've heard the horror stories of the ITC. I've even personally witnessed an inconsistency or two through the myriad of programs ATI has offered. But having experieneced many other disappointments, hurts and losses in my life through other means, I guess all I was trying to say was that you need to be careful about using this "outlet" to let off steam and vent frustrations, anger or hurt. It can backfire on you.
I don't say this judgementally, but from experience. God has shown me - through his word and through a particular hurt in my life - that I must CHOOSE to forgive my enemies (those that have hurt me) even if they never admit any wrongdoing - and many in the Institute at leadership levels apparently have a pride problem admitting when they have hurt someone or committed an injustice.
I am sorry to and for those of you who have been hurt. Even though I am not employed by ATI or IBLP, as a fellow Christian I want to say "please forgive them". Maybe it's past time for some of you to confront some of them about what they have done or continue to do. But, please do it in a spirit of love. That's what Jesus would do.
Thank you for your patience and tolerance with me. I, too, am on this journey of life with you. No better than you - just the same.
Are you a former ATI student?
== AH HA!!! My favorite 'Learning!' Whats shakin'?
Where to begin?!
You can post here to your hearts content! No one is telling you not to!
The reason x-ers can post freely is, correct me if Im wrong, this is a blog founded by an X-er and for X-ers. However, Im sure if you allow your mind to be infiltrated with the naughty humor of this blog that you will see that people from all backgrounds post here.
No, its not fair. Its just. heh heh heh.
You are right. Life sucks sometimes. I will say this though. There is a gargantuous difference between actually being involved with ATI and IBLP and looking in from the outside. You can see the hurt of others and feel for them but until you have experienced the hurt, the level of grace you have to offer is not what it could be.
Why be careful? This is a safe outlet for people to just be themselves. To share a laugh. To be brats. Its all good. Backfiring is a risk one takes with every aspect of life. Everything has the potential to backfire. Why censure because of what could be?
Forgiveness is a wonderful thing. All I would ask of you is to remember that each person is different. Forgiveness is going to look different on each person. It is judgmental to say that the X-ers are unforgiving because their forgiveness looks different from yours. I cant see the content of your heart, nor you the other posters. Thus, grace must be afforded because we dont have all the facts about each other.
I would ask you to walk a mile in the Vans of an X-er before you throw around words like 'confront.'
Just because I poke fun at you doesnt translate into dislike or toleration. I say bring on the posts. It take balls to 'fight the system.' I think it just might be your inner X-er peeking out. ;)
Peace out! Annie Nonymous
Sigh. I shall post one last time and then let it lie. By the way - Mr. Rebel (hey, I'll just call you "MR" for short) thank you for allowing my previous posts to stay.
I am not a former ATI student. I am not an employee of the institute nor have I ever been. I am an observer of human nature, though I have had many close relationships with former and current ATI students. It is through their experiences that I have witnessed what I mentioned. But.... I too have been lied to and deceived when I was much younger by people I trusted and my parents said I should listen to. I have carried many of those issues with me but have learned how to "let go" of a lot of those hurts.
Confrontation is never easy in any venue. But it's not all bad either. All I'm saying is that we must deal with our hurts if we are to have peace. That may be difficult for some of you to do if you are quiet by nature or afraid of confrontation. And fear of rejection by those who have wronged us is also a concern. But there can't be true peace until conflicts are resolved. Conflicts will ruin a friendship, a marriage, a business association, a ministry if not resolved. Let us purpose together to be at peace with one another in so far as it is possible (Rom 12:18)
Pray and ask God to show you if you need to reconcile with someone - especially from the Institute - maybe you don't. But whatever He shows you, be faithful to follow making sure your motivation is right. He will be with you.
I'm through now. Thanks for listening.
Is there a point to confronting IBLP leadership and Gothard?
Interviews have been requested and denied and books have even been written about the wrongs of Gothardized teachings to no avail.
Any mention that the teaching and behavior of the staff and minions of Gothardism being in error is a one way ticket to excommunication.
For most its not a matter of confronting but surviving in families and communities who penalize free thought.
Try it sometime and then lets see how gun ho you are to advocate confrontation and forgiveness.
Ill let Annie take it from there if she/he wants to. Im done.
Im bored. Annie
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